Can Messi or Ronaldo be considered the GOAT 🐐 if they don't win the World Cup? | Two Sharp Reds

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Optus Sport

Πριν 24 ημέρες

Following the success of Tom Brady's Tampa Bay Buccaneers in Super Bowl LV, Mark Schwarzer and Ollie Geale discuss whether or not you have to win multiple trophies to be considered the greatest of all time in your chosen sport - examining Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi's claim to that throne.
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Jubbly Πριν 17 ημέρες
Football players have more matches more tournament’s more players to pick from football is on another level
Mahadeb Mahato
Mahadeb Mahato Πριν 18 ημέρες
Then pele also cannot be considered the greatest because he hasn't played I n Europe 🍆🍆
ismailperth Πριν 20 ημέρες
Football teams are defined more by their weakest players rather than strongest players. The low scoring nature and large number of players makes this so. Get the greatest team ever and put a crap goalie in and a mediocre team has a very good chance. The money approach to football always says upgrade weakest players before making marquee signings because of this.
Eddy R
Eddy R Πριν 22 ημέρες
Lmao people don’t know who Tom Brady is in other countries
Allan Couceiro
Allan Couceiro Πριν 19 ημέρες
isn't he from that old tv show The Brady Bunch?
Fred fores
Fred fores Πριν 21 ημέρα
redda2 Πριν 22 ημέρες
Tom brady is GOAT sportsmen
ismailperth Πριν 20 ημέρες
Don Bradman
Elim Haile
Elim Haile Πριν 22 ημέρες
At the end of the day, the goat title shouldn’t be based on a competition every 4 years for 1 month where u have to be lucky to play for a dominant country team. Messi and Ronaldo have never been the favourites to win the World Cup, with the World Cup one of the favourites always win. Messi had to play Germans 3 straight tournaments and eventual champions France. Ronaldo had to play the stacked French team, dynasty in Spain, not really his fault. Not making it out of group stage is def on Ronaldo in 2014 and in 2018 it was 50/50 with Uruguay.
NuclearWinter Πριν 22 ημέρες
Individual play is what made them the goats. But in the end they are human they can’t 1v11
DMorlio18 Πριν 22 ημέρες
Messi is up there with the geniuses: Maradona, Pele and Cruyff. Its a team sport, they all have something missing. Maradona didn’t win the European cup, Pele never played in europe and Cruyff didn’t win the World Cup. Messi is up there as he’s one of the greatest goalscorers AND playmakers AND controllers of the game. He’s also done it consistently over 15 years and turned up in so many big games.
Armando Lima
Armando Lima Πριν 22 ημέρες
Messi goat? You gotta be joking. Maybe in his kindergarten. Among men, CR7 is the goat
thomas aivaliotis
thomas aivaliotis Πριν 9 ημέρες
How? messi is better in every way
Wasty 22
Wasty 22 Πριν 22 ημέρες
This is probably the most dumbest video title iv ever seen
ZX T Πριν 23 ημέρες
The world cup isn't comparable to the NFL, you can move to the best teams in the NFL, you can't change nations to win the world cup. Also the NFL/NBA is more comparable to the EPL than it is to a WC or UCL, as it is a domestic competition. Winning major titles is far more about the team than one player, requiring players to win a world cup to be the GOAT is ridiculous because they have to rely on 10+ other players from their nation. At least with club titles, they can move to teams which give them regular chances to win titles. A great player can help their team win a few crucial matches in the world cup, but without their team performing at a consistently high level, winning the world cup is very unlikely. Great players can win a match, great teams win titles.
kandula jashwanth
kandula jashwanth Πριν 21 ημέρα
These American's think that NFL/NBA are same level with UCL and World Cup, calling their leagues as World Series doesn't mean it is a worldwide league
Spateri Πριν 23 ημέρες
If you compare team sports then Gretzky's records are phenomenal. Held 61 NHL records when he retired. Won MVP 9 times, 8 of them consecutively. 10 scoring titles, 4 Stanley Cups. 51 games in a row with a goal. Still holds many records that'll will never be beat as scoring isn't as easy thesedays. Still. If you compare Pele to Messi etc. Or Jordan to LeBron then you run into problems. The older sports leagues were vastly different to today. Just look at the amount of support staff they have, or technology that tracks player movement. They have cameras that record each individual player to review. Teams can compile video and statistics of their opponent teams/ players to review before games etc. I think the longevity of older sportsmans records was testament to their greatness. They didn't have dieticians and personal physios/ ice baths/ modern travel...GOAT should really be only of eras.
Capital Black
Capital Black Πριν 22 ημέρες
Then wilt Chamberlain or kareem should be rated above jordan
JB UTD88 Πριν 23 ημέρες
Club level higher than international so why do they need a world cup?
James Πριν 22 ημέρες
@GJ think the point he's trying to make is they've already proved their the best and their failure to deliver a world cup doesn't take away from that
GJ Πριν 23 ημέρες
because its easily the hardest to win and leading your team to a world cup is a significantly harder thing to do than win trophies with a club.
Magnus Kamugisha
Magnus Kamugisha Πριν 23 ημέρες
Yes. They are the best footballers to have played the game.
HarryK Πριν 23 ημέρες
World cup doesn't mean shit lmao, there's like 5 countries that can realistically win it in any one decade
HarryK Πριν 21 ημέρα
@Fyneskills it shouldn't be used as a negarive in the goat debate, winning helps but when 2 players are as great as messi and cr7 are, theyre goat candidates regardless of the world cup. Read my previous comments if you need clarification
Fyneskills Πριν 21 ημέρα
@HarryK so, let me get this straight. The world cup doesn't mean shit because there are only 5 teams that can win it in any decade. However, it does mean shit if you win and can be used to bolster your legacy, unless you had a 50% or greater chance of winning it, then it doesn't mean shit. Is this what you're going with?
HarryK Πριν 21 ημέρα
@Fyneskills unless Argentina's odds on winning the world cup were greater than 50% at the start of the tournament, why would not winning count against his legacy. If he wins it would be an addition to his legacy. Soccer is a team sport with 11 on the field, it's not his fault higuain missed some absolute sitters. Also does this mean that because CR7 happened to be born in Portugal he can never be the goat? No, Messi and CR7 are already top 3 without question. For me personally they are top 2.
Fyneskills Πριν 21 ημέρα
@HarryK If Argentina is a country that can win a world cup, and it has a top player like Messi, should not it count against his legacy? Only 5 teams can win according to you each decade, but only 1 can have the greatest player.
HarryK Πριν 21 ημέρα
@Fyneskills yeah they did, what's your point?
Mahdi Khandaker
Mahdi Khandaker Πριν 23 ημέρες
Yes. They are above any other footballer in history
arman karol
arman karol Πριν 23 ημέρες
Axxess Mundi
Axxess Mundi Πριν 23 ημέρες
Super Bowl is a NATIONAL championship. To win a La Liga, EPL or Serie A are national titles. To win a Champions League or Libertadores is a Continental Championship. A World Cup is above and beyond an NFL or NBA title. Pele, Maradona, Garrincha, Beckenbauer, Zagallo, Ronaldo, Romario, Platini are above Jordan, Abdul-Jabbar, Brady, James. US sportsmen have the media hype.
Axxess Mundi
Axxess Mundi Πριν 21 ημέρα
@Fyneskills A World Cup is an international tournament in which national teams have to qualify for to participate. An NBA title is a national championship with no Continental or International challenges to define a World Title. Your conjecture is debunked by your own ineptitude. You're welcome 😊!
Fyneskills Πριν 21 ημέρα
@Axxess Mundi To say the World Cup is above an NBA championship is your own bias at play. Both attract the best players globally. You just like one sport more than the other.
Axxess Mundi
Axxess Mundi Πριν 21 ημέρα
@Fyneskills and?
Fyneskills Πριν 21 ημέρα
Basketball is a global game.
Axxess Mundi
Axxess Mundi Πριν 22 ημέρες
@curfishproductions Again your metrics are despondent. Messi did not win a WC but he has won • Olympic Gold Medal • 4 Uefa Continental •10 National League Titles • 6 Domestic National titles • 3 Fifa Club World Cup • U20 World Cup • 6 WPOY I didn't mention others above Messi like Pele, Ronaldo, Zidane, Puskas, DeStefano...etc... An NFL, NBA, MLB championship is below FIFA Inter-Continental championships. An NFL titles is comparable to the Argentina league Brasileirao EPL Bundesliga La Liga Serie A Reasons being each of those nations are always top ranked for the past century. Austrailia or Honduras aren't a top ranked nations and neither is the MLS or Liga Mx because they are 2nd tier confederations. You want to compare the international legacy of Real Madrid, Milan, Barcelona, Boca Jr's, Liverpool, River Plate, Corinthians, Flamengo to just American teams like NE Patriots, Cowboys, 49ers, Giants, Steelers etc...None of the American teams ever won an international title as the other teams I mentioned. I'm a huge NFL fan but a Lombardi trophy is Inferior to a Champions League, Libertadores or a WC. I would say a Lombardi trophy is comparable to the Brasileirao, EPL, La Liga or Serie A national title. A Champions League win is a Super Bowl of a Super Bowl to then even qualify for the Grand Super Bowl in a Club World Cup.
The Egocentric Predicament
The Egocentric Predicament Πριν 23 ημέρες
Yes, you can be considered the best without winning the World Cup, the opportunity to even compete in a World Cup comes around once every four years. Therefore even if you started playing professionally when you were 16 you only really have 4-5 chances to even win the bloody thing. Now you have to consider it is a team sport. If Argentina’s keeper saves gotzes shot in that World Cup final who knows what happens. But the defence and keeper let the goal in and that’s all she wrote. Literally has nothing to do with Messi, and yet he is culpable if they don’t win, that’s ridiculous. Also you acknowledge that its a moot point to compare sports to one another but Tom Brady literally has one of the least physical positions on the whole team. A team of 55 players ! Where you only play half the game and you only play roughly 20 games including playoffs in a whole year compared to football where you play 32 ish games just for the season not including CL or domestic cups or pre season tournaments. So it’s probably best to not even make the comparison tbh 🤷‍♂️ and also LeBron is nowhere near 6 rings lmao.
Ads 05
Ads 05 Πριν 22 ημέρες
Couldn't be bothered to read it but I agree
Leo _
Leo _ Πριν 23 ημέρες
Dude leave the defence. If Higuain had scored that fuckin free chance they would have won it.
Paul Cook
Paul Cook Πριν 23 ημέρες
No Maradonna is
flawless mr
flawless mr Πριν 22 ημέρες
No Pele is
Spateri Πριν 23 ημέρες
Jordan. LeBron needs a looney tunes movie first to be considered.
T Q Πριν 23 ημέρες
Shaq is ahead of LeBron then haha
King Jag
King Jag Πριν 23 ημέρες
It’s a team sport
King Jag
King Jag Πριν 23 ημέρες
blake melhuish
blake melhuish Πριν 23 ημέρες
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